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[Music]

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hello and welcome to episode number 63

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of the point of convergence podcast as

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always i am your host exo academian

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2017 was the year that saw a sudden

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uptick of mainstream interest in the

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notion of ufos following revelations

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arising from a groundbreaking article in

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the new york times

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this article describes so-called

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unidentified aerial phenomena modern

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nomenclature for what had traditionally

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been referred to as unidentified flying

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objects ufos

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these revelations suggested these

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objects and or phenomena have been

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documented and studied as part of an

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official department of defense program

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this tacit acknowledgment of an official

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ufo program marked a sharp right turn

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when compared with the historical trend

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where the government had traditionally

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sought to suppress dismiss and even

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ridicule the notion of ufos as part of

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official policy

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ever since that trailblazing article was

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first published the interest in this

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topic has grown by leaps and bounds in

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the mainstream

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even if it still feels painfully slow

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and incremental to those more familiar

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with the wealth of data suggesting there

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really is a there there and that there

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has been for a very long time

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but nevertheless the presence of these

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apparent vehicles that appear to be

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under intelligent control has led to

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inevitable questions around who might be

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behind them either at the wheel so to

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speak or piloting them remotely from

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somewhere else

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industry insiders attest to the beyond

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next-gen capabilities of these craft

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suggesting startlingly that they

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couldn't possibly belong to any

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contemporary nation-state player

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and of course in people's minds that

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leaves open one enticing possibility the

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notion that these may be the property of

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an extraterrestrial intelligence

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a biological exoplanetary species who've

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come here to study us for reasons thus

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far largely unknown

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for some people in our civilization this

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notion is most welcome because the

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thinking is that these more

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sophisticated others may be able to help

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us address some of our most intractable

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problems

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for others it prompts feelings of fear

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forcing a reckoning around the notion

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that we may not be the apex species on

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the block after all

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of course for those of us much more

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intimately familiar with the breadth and

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depth of the historical literature on

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this topic

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these questions while certainly profound

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are just the proverbial tip of the

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iceberg

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and that's because a deep dive into the

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actual data gathered over the decades

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suggests the presence of one or more

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extraterrestrial species in our midst

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may not be sufficient to explain the

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bizarreness of what has been observed

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and encountered by human beings around

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the world and across time

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in the 1970s trailblazing figures like

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jacques vallee and john keel emerged

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provocatively suggesting that these

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traditional nuts and bolts e.t

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hypothesis

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was not the best fit for the events

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described in the literature

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valley surprised many by drawing

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parallels between modern ufo encounters

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with supposed space aliens and

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encounters with the so-called fairy folk

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of deep human lore

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by comparing and contrasting the nature

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of these various entities and encounters

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the lay forced a 20th century populist

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to wrestle with the notion that what we

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might be seeing is just a modern day

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manifestation of a presence that has

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been with us since the very beginning

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while the lay's postulation is certainly

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a compelling one after all these

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striking parallels do exist

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it's also important not to prematurely

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leap to that conclusion based solely on

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superficial similarities

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and of course this begs the question

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how much overlap really exists between

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ancient fairy and even religious

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tradition and the modern day ufo

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phenomenon

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and how might we distinguish between a

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single intelligence with multiple

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manifestations

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and the presence of multiple

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intelligences perhaps arising from very

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different sources

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these are the very matters we'll seek to

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engage with in this the 63rd episode of

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the point of convergence podcast

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[Music]

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as i mentioned in the introduction to

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today's podcast the article in the new

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york times in 2017

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focused on the apparent craft that had

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been observed as part of the a-tip

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program

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now when it comes to the ufo phenomenon

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truly the real there there is the

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interaction with the apparent non-human

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intelligences behind these craft

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the craft are a secondary matter and may

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not even be permanent structures much of

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the time

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again the central interest here should

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be with the nature of the interactions

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with these intelligences that appear to

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be

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non-human or certainly

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non-conventionally human

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and when we look to the literature

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behind the ufo phenomenon there really

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is a wealth of information there

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people who have had peculiar experiences

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with various others i.e non-human

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intelligences over time

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now right off the bat let's deal with a

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concern or a criticism that's put

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forward by the skeptical community or

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the debunker community when it comes to

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this kind of data regarding interactions

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with apparently non-human intelligences

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skeptics will claim this is so-called

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anecdotal data i.e hearsay stories that

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people tell we have no way to ascertain

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whether or not this really happened or

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not and people are prone to making

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things up or misidentifying things etc

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what i would say here is what's

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convincing is the depth and breadth of

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the data there's just so much of it so

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even when you build in fairly healthy

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filters allowing for plenty of room for

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some fraudulent claims some

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misidentification some mental

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instability etc there are still many

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many many cases and many of them have

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striking overlaps suggesting the most

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parsimonious explanation here the most

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logical conclusion

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is that human beings really are

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encountering a different kind of

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intelligence non-human and that they

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have been

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for a very very long time and as we'll

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discuss in today's podcast perhaps since

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the very dawn of our civilization

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i would also add here that of course

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much of this skepticism this criticism

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comes from an a priori notion that these

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events can't possibly be happening that

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they exist beyond the parameters of

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normality of the expectations around the

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real world and therefore they must not

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be true they must not be factual

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now it's interesting thinking back on

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other historical events where these

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kinds of claims were made

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one particular one comes to mind where

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people who were farmers people who were

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rural folk were noticing rocks falling

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from the sky fiery rocks and they

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reported this in the town square

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and of course the officials in the town

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told these people these poor common folk

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that they were mistaken they were

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delusional no such thing could be

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happening

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of course later on such a thing as a

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meteorite was discovered that yes indeed

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fiery rocks can fall from the sky these

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are meteorites and then it was

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acknowledged that these people were not

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making this up they were not delusional

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but again the key here is initially

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people in official function had the gall

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to tell these people they were

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delusional that they weren't seeing what

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they were seeing literally

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all right so now let's get into the

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kinds of encounters people have had

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within the so-called ufo phenomenon

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now as i mentioned in the introduction

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many people i would say most people

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assume that if people are encountering

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sophisticated others that seem to be a

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non-human intelligence the assumption is

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that these are space aliens if they are

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biological beings they look like that

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then of course our assumption is they

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can't be from here therefore they must

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be from space

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but the truth is when on-the-ground

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researchers like john keel and jacques

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villa actually interviewed witnesses

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what they found was that the encounters

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were very strange bizarre even absurd

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bottom line many of the encounters

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stretch the credulity of the notion that

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this is how space aliens would act

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now of course we can't trust our

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assumptions if this is a non-human

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intelligence we can't pretend to know

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how they would act exactly but at the

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same time if they are a biological

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species of a more sophisticated nature

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we might have some sense of how they

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might act and yet the encounters that

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people had flew in the face of these

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very basic assumptions

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again involving lots of high strangeness

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a lot of bizarreness and even absurdity

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if these really were space aliens here

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on some sort of scientific expedition

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why were they acting in such strange

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ways could this really be space aliens

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arising from some far-flung star system

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of course it wasn't that these alien

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craft were landing on people's lawn and

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these others were coming out and

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stopping for tea and biscuits

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no what often happens is that people are

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visited in the middle of the night and

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there's a strange overarching element to

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the entire encounter involving lots of

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high strangeness feeling almost like an

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altered state of reality or

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consciousness or an alternate realm this

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is very common in the ufo phenomenon

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literature where the very nature of

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reality around the person being visited

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or contacted or abducted

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seems to change the modulation seems to

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be different when they're in the

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presence of these others

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and much of this involves a distortion

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of both space and time during these

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encounters

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now when we think back to the dawn of

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the modern ufo era we think of kenneth

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arnold and his sighting

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in the state of washington

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now what's interesting is at first blush

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this looks like a classical ufo case of

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craft in the sky

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but what's interesting is more recently

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it's come out that kenneth arnold

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actually had experiences with high

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strangeness

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after this event in the days following

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the sighting he actually spotted orbs

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near his house and in his house and this

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again is very very common in the ufo

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phenomenon literature it's been

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happening since we first documented

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these kinds of encounters

284
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the only reason we hear about it more

285
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,320
now is that there's less suppression

286
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:10,480
many of those early ufologists just

287
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,640
chose to not report those elements of

288
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:14,640
the encounters because they seem to fly

289
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:16,160
in the face of the notion that these

290
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:17,920
really were space aliens that were

291
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:20,399
visiting us so the holes in the data or

292
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:22,320
the narrative had to do with that

293
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:24,160
omission by the reporters by the

294
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:26,560
recorders of the events not because the

295
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:28,640
events didn't involve those elements to

296
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,720
begin with and of course a book like

297
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:32,959
skinwalkers at the pentagon has more

298
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:35,279
recently really highlighted this

299
00:11:40,230 --> 00:11:37,839
connection between high strangeness or

300
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,240
general paranormality and the ufo

301
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:43,120
phenomenon the asap program which was a

302
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:45,760
government-funded program actually chose

303
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:48,959
to investigate not just ufos but all

304
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:53,279
co-arising anomalous phenomena and why

305
00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:55,040
because historically it had already been

306
00:11:59,750 --> 00:11:57,680
made clear that these events do arise

307
00:12:02,069 --> 00:11:59,760
together these elements arise together

308
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:02,079
in the same event that a ufo might be

309
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:04,160
sighted in the sky and then orbs might

310
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:06,240
be spotted on the ground or a person

311
00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:08,800
might have an experience of a distortion

312
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:11,200
of space-time etc

313
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,000
poltergeist activity also has been noted

314
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,480
in these kinds of encounters and again

315
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,639
here one can see why those initial

316
00:12:23,350 --> 00:12:20,720
ufologists who really wanted to see this

317
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:23,360
as space aliens were perplexed

318
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:25,680
why would poltergeist activity be

319
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:28,240
co-arising with a ufo sighting and yet

320
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,399
this happens time and time again in this

321
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,560
phenomenon

322
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:34,560
now speaking of high strangeness

323
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,839
paranormality and elements like

324
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:39,279
poltergeists we also find in the

325
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,600
skinwalkers at the pentagon book this

326
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:43,519
notion of the so-called hitchhiker

327
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:46,320
effect where people seem to be followed

328
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,000
by some sort of intelligence some sort

329
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:50,880
of entity in an almost viral way long

330
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:52,800
after they've left the premises of a

331
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:54,959
place like skinwalker ranch

332
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:57,360
sometimes even relatives friends or even

333
00:13:02,230 --> 00:12:59,920
social acquaintances of these people can

334
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:02,240
also be impacted by this kind of

335
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:05,040
poltergeist phenomena which is titled

336
00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:07,200
the hitchhiker effect in this case and

337
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,160
refers to a kind of social contagion

338
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:11,839
now what's interesting here is that this

339
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,079
is a very new notion to many people in

340
00:13:17,829 --> 00:13:16,399
ufology and it's kind of created quite a

341
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:17,839
shocking effect

342
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:21,680
but ironically in so-called hauntology

343
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,560
this has been a long-known phenomena

344
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:26,480
in other words people who investigate

345
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:28,480
ghosts and hauntings and things of that

346
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:31,680
nature have long associated those kinds

347
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,920
of encounters with this long-term

348
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,519
hitchhiker effect

349
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,079
it's only new in ufology and again what

350
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:39,680
i'm suggesting here is that it's because

351
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,399
of a kind of false demarcation we place

352
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:43,920
around these different kinds of

353
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,440
encounters

354
00:13:48,710 --> 00:13:47,120
as well as these different fields of

355
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:48,720
study when what we really should be

356
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,639
doing is studying all of these

357
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:52,800
encounters all of these different kinds

358
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:54,800
of phenomena and look for the

359
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:56,639
overarching patterns and what that might

360
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:58,480
be telling us even about the nature of

361
00:14:01,350 --> 00:13:59,760
reality

362
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,360
now perhaps you might be wondering why

363
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,360
there hasn't been more overlap between

364
00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:05,360
these different fields of study

365
00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:07,120
well again much of it comes down to

366
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:10,000
biases assumptions and the desire to be

367
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:12,079
accepted in the mainstream

368
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:14,320
in other words ufologists long saw

369
00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:16,480
themselves as a kind of astronomer just

370
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,040
looking for space aliens traveling here

371
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:21,120
from some exoplanet

372
00:14:24,629 --> 00:14:22,720
but they saw themselves basically as

373
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,639
scientific observers existing in the

374
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,160
mainstream and they were looking for

375
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:28,399
data to find more acceptance in the

376
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:29,680
mainstream

377
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:31,519
they do not want to be associated with

378
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:33,040
people looking at ghosts and

379
00:14:37,750 --> 00:14:35,519
poltergeists because they don't think

380
00:14:39,509 --> 00:14:37,760
that's even real much of the time they

381
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:39,519
think that's fringe while they think

382
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,880
ufology should be mainstream likewise

383
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,399
the ontologists

384
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,320
don't want to be associated with ufos

385
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:48,720
because they think that's too fringe and

386
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:50,720
so both sides don't end up talking to

387
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,440
each other don't compare data and don't

388
00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:55,839
find these overlapping aspects of the

389
00:14:58,949 --> 00:14:57,199
data sets

390
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:58,959
it's only with books like skinwalkers at

391
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:01,199
the pentagon that we begin to piece

392
00:15:05,110 --> 00:15:03,120
together a picture that suggests we

393
00:15:07,910 --> 00:15:05,120
might be seeing some overarching

394
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:07,920
phenomenon that is evidenced in both

395
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,800
hauntology and ufology

396
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,240
and by the way if you're curious for a

397
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:15,519
definition ontology is defined in

398
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:18,240
wikipedia as a range of ideas referring

399
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:21,040
to the return or persistence of elements

400
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:23,600
from the social or cultural past as in

401
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,760
the manner of a ghost

402
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:27,680
and by the way speaking of overlapping

403
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:30,399
phenomena let us not forget that often

404
00:15:35,829 --> 00:15:33,360
or at least on occasion alien supposed

405
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:35,839
aliens greys for instance have been

406
00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,000
spotted right alongside supposedly

407
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:40,959
deceased relatives for instance on a

408
00:15:46,069 --> 00:15:43,199
previous podcast i mentioned how whitley

409
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:46,079
strieber recounts at one point he and

410
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,880
his wife encountering gray aliens on one

411
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:50,959
floor of his cabin in the new york

412
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,160
wilderness

413
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:54,399
while people staying downstairs in the

414
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:55,680
floor below

415
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,240
encountered a deceased brother and

416
00:16:02,069 --> 00:16:00,320
interestingly this person this woman

417
00:16:04,629 --> 00:16:02,079
didn't even know her brother had been

418
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,639
deceased he had been missing but he

419
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:06,800
showed up she realized then he was

420
00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,839
deceased but he assured her he was okay

421
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:11,839
and this happened at the very same time

422
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:14,000
that grey aliens were being encountered

423
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:17,040
by whitley strieber in the floor above

424
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:19,920
so the overlap is sometimes front and

425
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:21,440
center

426
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:23,360
by the way as a quick aside here we've

427
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:24,959
already discussed how people like

428
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:27,199
jacques villa and john keel

429
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:28,880
when they looked at the data and when

430
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,279
they investigated this phenomenon with

431
00:16:35,590 --> 00:16:33,519
boots on the ground so to speak

432
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:35,600
interviewing witnesses and such first

433
00:16:40,150 --> 00:16:37,759
hand that they came to the conclusion

434
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,160
that the eth the extraterrestrial

435
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:43,199
hypothesis was perhaps not the best fit

436
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:45,120
for the totality of the data that was

437
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:46,560
being observed

438
00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:49,199
now interestingly in hauntology there

439
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,079
has also arisen counter hypotheses to

440
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:54,399
the notion that when we see a kind of

441
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:57,040
translucent humanoid figure that we're

442
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:58,480
actually seeing someone from the

443
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:01,360
historical past a ghost in other words

444
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:03,279
some people have suggested that perhaps

445
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:04,640
we are seeing

446
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:07,280
human beings from an alternate earth so

447
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:08,720
again here we have the kind of

448
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:10,799
interdimensional hypothesis coming in

449
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,400
again but applying itself to hauntology

450
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,160
and interestingly when i think back to

451
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,120
my own encounter that i discussed before

452
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,120
one of the things i noticed most of all

453
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:23,600
was that this humanoid entity looked

454
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:27,520
surprised when i saw it slash her

455
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,200
now it occurs to me when i think about

456
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:31,919
this that that surprise might not just

457
00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:34,880
mean that it she was surprised i could

458
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:37,840
see it but rather that that look of

459
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:40,480
surprise was because it was suddenly

460
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:41,760
seeing us

461
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:44,480
in other words we were hunting it

462
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,640
just as it was haunting us in a way you

463
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,960
could say it's worth considering anyway

464
00:17:53,669 --> 00:17:51,039
and again it's a good lesson in not

465
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:53,679
jumping to conclusions too quickly

466
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:55,360
in other words in this case the

467
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,760
surprised expression i remember seeing

468
00:18:02,870 --> 00:17:59,760
on it her face

469
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:02,880
might mean more than one thing

470
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:05,360
okay so so far we've discussed an

471
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:08,640
overlap between hauntology and ufology

472
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:11,039
or so-called ghosts or poltergeist

473
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,480
activity and the ufo phenomenon but as

474
00:18:17,909 --> 00:18:16,400
we mentioned in the introduction

475
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:17,919
via the work of people like jacques

476
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:20,320
vallet we also know about an overlap

477
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,360
between fairy lore and ufology or the

478
00:18:27,029 --> 00:18:25,200
ufo phenomenon

479
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:27,039
now an interesting work to look towards

480
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:29,600
here to learn more about these entities

481
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:31,840
and people's encounters with them is a

482
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,160
book called the secret commonwealth

483
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:36,400
which was penned by a man named robert

484
00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:38,960
kirk and the description of the book is

485
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:41,679
as follows the secret commonwealth a

486
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:43,919
classic enchanting document of scottish

487
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:46,880
folklore about fairies elves and other

488
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:48,880
supernatural creatures

489
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:51,760
late in the 17th century robert kirk an

490
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:54,240
episcopalian minister in the scottish

491
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:56,240
highlands set out to collect his

492
00:19:02,950 --> 00:18:59,120
parishioners many striking stories about

493
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,960
elves fairies fawns doppelgangers

494
00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:05,600
wraiths and other beings of in kirk's

495
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:09,039
words a middle nature betwixt man and

496
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,320
angel for kirk these stories constituted

497
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:14,400
strong evidence for the reality of a

498
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:17,520
supernatural world existing parallel to

499
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:19,919
ours which he passionately believed

500
00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:22,640
demanded exploration as much as the new

501
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,039
world across the seas

502
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:27,360
kirk defended these views in the secret

503
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:29,600
commonwealth an essay that was left in

504
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,039
manuscript when he died in 1692.

505
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:35,280
it is a rare and fascinating work an

506
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:37,520
extraordinary amalgam of science

507
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:40,240
religion and folklore suffused with a

508
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:43,039
spirit of active curiosity and bemused

509
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:45,440
wonder that fills robert burton's

510
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:47,919
anatomy of melancholy and the works of

511
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,760
sir thomas brown

512
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:51,600
the secret commonwealth is not only a

513
00:19:56,070 --> 00:19:53,440
remarkable document in the history of

514
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:56,080
ideas but a study of enchantment that

515
00:20:01,830 --> 00:19:59,760
enchants in its own right unquote

516
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:01,840
now as i mentioned we know much about

517
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,320
the overlap between elements of the ufo

518
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,880
phenomenon and elements of the fairy

519
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:08,720
lore because of the work of jacques

520
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:10,960
valet specifically in his groundbreaking

521
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,280
book passport to magonia which we've

522
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:15,679
discussed several times before

523
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:17,360
some of the overlap for instance

524
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:20,159
involves orbs believe it or not and

525
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:23,440
disorientation in space and time even

526
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,840
abduction is part of the literature when

527
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:27,840
it comes to the fairies

528
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:29,919
they are also known to be shape shifters

529
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:32,640
at times which also fits with elements

530
00:20:37,909 --> 00:20:35,440
of the ufo phenomenon data so indeed

531
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:37,919
there is some striking parallel

532
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,000
these are entities that we don't tend to

533
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,559
come across in our normal waking world

534
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,360
or what you might call consensus reality

535
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:47,520
and yet we do come across them in a kind

536
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:50,000
of altered state of consciousness or an

537
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:51,840
alternate kind of realm

538
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,000
where a kind of overlay of high

539
00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:56,559
strangeness is part and parcel with the

540
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:58,960
experience itself

541
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:01,360
now i already mentioned how hontologists

542
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,520
and ufologists sometimes steer clear of

543
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,360
each other because they're convinced the

544
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,280
other is too fringe

545
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:09,280
in the same way those who study fairy

546
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:11,520
lore tend to not want to be associated

547
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:13,679
with ufos or at least that's long been

548
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,640
the case and vice versa again because

549
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:18,720
they want to be seen as a legitimate

550
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:21,039
study and not associated with other

551
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:23,919
fringe elements or fields of study lest

552
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,640
it undermine their own credibility

553
00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:29,039
but again just as with hauntology just

554
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,320
as with ufology the study of fairy lore

555
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,480
suggests that these are entities that

556
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,960
people really have interacted with in a

557
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:38,880
real way and that there is again

558
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:40,960
striking overlap with these other two

559
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,440
fields we already discussed

560
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:45,360
now moving on from ghosts and

561
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,559
poltergeists and ufos and aliens and

562
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:50,880
fairies and goblins etc

563
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:52,720
let's now turn our attention to what are

564
00:21:57,590 --> 00:21:55,280
sometimes called the celestials

565
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,600
here we also have quite a bit of overlap

566
00:22:01,750 --> 00:21:59,679
with these other fields of study we've

567
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:01,760
talked about and the entities that are

568
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,000
included in those fields of study so

569
00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:06,320
again we ask ourselves are these really

570
00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:08,240
different entities or are they different

571
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:10,480
manifestations of the same underlying

572
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:12,080
intelligence

573
00:22:17,110 --> 00:22:14,480
now with the celestials some people use

574
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:17,120
the term extra dimensional here

575
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,640
and this is to denote the fact that

576
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:20,720
these may be arising from outside the

577
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:23,520
space-time construct altogether

578
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:25,919
i.e they are not biological beings from

579
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:28,000
either our physical universe or a

580
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:30,080
parallel physical universe

581
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:31,919
so you have something like an et an

582
00:22:35,669 --> 00:22:33,280
extraterrestrial which would be a

583
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:35,679
biological being from our own physical

584
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:39,679
universe some exo-solar kind of planet

585
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:41,360
and then you have interdimensionals

586
00:22:45,909 --> 00:22:44,080
which are supposedly perhaps beings

587
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,919
coming from a different parallel

588
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,000
physical universe but still biological

589
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:49,919
beings and then there are these

590
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:52,720
celestials that may be extra dimensional

591
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:54,480
in the sense that they aren't arising

592
00:22:59,590 --> 00:22:57,520
from the space-time construct at all

593
00:23:02,070 --> 00:22:59,600
now these are often seen as primarily

594
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,080
composed of light or at least that's how

595
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:04,799
we perceive them and as such their shape

596
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,679
can often shift in real time but they

597
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:09,840
seem to have no physical structure to

598
00:23:15,430 --> 00:23:12,640
them often that's the case anyway

599
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:15,440
another key central element here is a

600
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:18,480
decidedly for lack of a better term

601
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:21,440
spiritual element a sense of deep

602
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:23,679
ultimate meaning which is associated

603
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,360
with these beings

604
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,280
when we think back to the two episodes i

605
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:30,000
did on dorothy eyes at she seemed to be

606
00:23:34,549 --> 00:23:32,240
encountering these entities and they

607
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,559
were primarily positive

608
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:36,960
she actually saw them as angels

609
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:38,559
now of course she came from a catholic

610
00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:40,799
background so that somewhat par for the

611
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:42,480
course you might argue

612
00:23:46,710 --> 00:23:44,960
but she also at one point encountered

613
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:46,720
negative entities and this was

614
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:48,960
associated with her having a fearful

615
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:52,159
state so once again there we see how our

616
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,159
consciousness plays a role and by the

617
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:56,159
way that's true of all of these kinds of

618
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,159
encounters there's overlap there too

619
00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:00,720
that's a key central element

620
00:24:05,269 --> 00:24:03,360
but most of the time dorothy encountered

621
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:05,279
positive beings which she saw as

622
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:08,400
spiritual entities coming from outside

623
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,080
space-time itself

624
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:12,480
and these particular others she saw as

625
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:14,320
leading her towards something something

626
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:16,880
meaningful there was a purpose there

627
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,880
now some will look at her story and

628
00:24:22,950 --> 00:24:20,640
others like it and ask

629
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:22,960
why do these others if their goal is to

630
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,000
help us

631
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:25,760
choose such relatively obscure

632
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:28,080
individuals why not appear on the white

633
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:29,600
house lawn

634
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:32,080
well for one the consciousness piece the

635
00:24:37,269 --> 00:24:34,159
openness and general energetic demeanor

636
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,279
of the people involved seems to be key

637
00:24:41,830 --> 00:24:39,440
only certain people may be able to be

638
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,840
contacted in this way

639
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,080
secondly these kinds of cases chris

640
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:46,480
bledsoe is another one much like it

641
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,440
may be serving to slowly inoculate us to

642
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:51,760
the presence of these others so that

643
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:53,919
they may eventually play a more central

644
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:56,320
role when you look at the ramp up of

645
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:58,400
various aspects of the phenomenon of

646
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:01,600
late one can easily draw that conclusion

647
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:03,120
although once again there we have to be

648
00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:06,400
careful not to assume it's all one thing

649
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:08,240
all right so now let's step back for a

650
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:10,320
moment and think back on the different

651
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,320
kinds of entities the different fields

652
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:14,400
of study we've discussed so far

653
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,520
everything from ufos and aliens to

654
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:19,360
fairies and goblins

655
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,240
to celestial beings or angels

656
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:24,720
to ghosts and poltergeists is it really

657
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:27,679
the case that these are all one category

658
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,000
ultimately different manifestations of

659
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,480
the same underlying intelligence

660
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:34,880
even if you exclude ghosts for instance

661
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,200
or human looking beings although that's

662
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,440
central in the ufo phenomenon as well so

663
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,520
i'm not sure we can do that but even if

664
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,000
you try that looking at just what

665
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:46,320
jacques valet talked about with the

666
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:48,960
fairy lore for instance and ufology and

667
00:25:54,789 --> 00:25:51,760
even encounters like that from fatima

668
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:54,799
where the catholic church interpreted it

669
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:58,159
as a manifestation of the virgin mary

670
00:26:02,470 --> 00:25:59,520
when we look at those kinds of

671
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:02,480
encounters fairy lore religious history

672
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:05,440
the ufo phenomenon can we confidently

673
00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:08,000
say that is actually one central

674
00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:10,480
intelligence manifesting differently or

675
00:26:14,789 --> 00:26:12,000
perhaps just being interpreted

676
00:26:16,710 --> 00:26:14,799
differently by human beings according to

677
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,720
our cultural frameworks and such

678
00:26:22,149 --> 00:26:18,720
depending what our worldview is what we

679
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,159
think is possible etc

680
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:24,400
personally i'm actually suspicious of

681
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:26,799
this attempt to reduce one kind of

682
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:29,120
category to another or to collapse two

683
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:31,760
categories into one i'm not convinced

684
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:34,159
that the fairy lore represents the same

685
00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:36,799
beings or entities or intelligences that

686
00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:39,520
we encounter in the ufo phenomenon that

687
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,520
may be the case sometime it may be a

688
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:43,600
case of mistaken identities sometimes

689
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,080
because there is even evidence that some

690
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:48,240
fairies look a bit like gray aliens and

691
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:50,240
vice versa so you can see how people

692
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:53,440
will get mixed up but bottom line this

693
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,640
comes down to the difficulty people have

694
00:27:02,110 --> 00:26:59,360
in accepting the possibility of a very

695
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:02,120
very rich very populated

696
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,120
multi-dimensional kind of reality

697
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:07,200
to step back and think about how i began

698
00:27:12,630 --> 00:27:09,840
this episode i talked about how the

699
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:12,640
mainstream is finally reckoning with

700
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:15,200
this notion that others may be here and

701
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,520
again most people leap to the conclusion

702
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:19,440
that these would be et's

703
00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:22,320
extraterrestrial biological beings

704
00:27:27,149 --> 00:27:24,440
the notion of inter-dimensionals

705
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:27,159
extra-dimensionals celestials

706
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,000
ultra-terrestrials crypto-terrestrials

707
00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:32,240
all these other possibilities are not

708
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:33,760
really even being considered by the

709
00:27:36,870 --> 00:27:36,080
mainstream yet they have a long way to

710
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,880
go

711
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,960
so what i'm saying here is that it's one

712
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:40,640
thing for people to accept the notion

713
00:27:45,350 --> 00:27:43,120
that extraterrestrials may be here

714
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,360
that's not a huge stretch and most

715
00:27:50,070 --> 00:27:47,760
scientists astronomers especially

716
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,080
believe life does exist elsewhere in the

717
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:52,480
universe there's just too many planets

718
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,200
in the cosmos that if you allow for even

719
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:57,600
a small percentage of those to be

720
00:28:02,310 --> 00:27:59,760
habitable planets then you're going to

721
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:02,320
likely find civilizations and based on

722
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:04,960
the history of the cosmos the length of

723
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:08,159
the history of the cosmos how old it is

724
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:10,320
it's very likely that some civilizations

725
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:13,200
might be very very very beyond us they

726
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,520
could have been developing technology

727
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:17,600
for as much as a million or a billion

728
00:28:21,269 --> 00:28:19,360
years beyond us

729
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,279
so that would certainly entail them

730
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:23,679
being able to come here perhaps even

731
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:25,120
break into our reality through a

732
00:28:28,549 --> 00:28:27,120
wormhole kind of thing and that might

733
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,559
explain what we see

734
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,640
it's one thing for people to reckon with

735
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:32,159
that possibility

736
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,919
but we're asking much more than that

737
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,760
here based on the data and based on the

738
00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:38,159
hypotheses we're talking about

739
00:28:42,110 --> 00:28:40,240
we're saying in addition to that we want

740
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:42,120
people to be open to the notion of

741
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:44,559
interdimensionals that these beings are

742
00:28:50,269 --> 00:28:47,760
breaking in from parallel realities that

743
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,279
possibility that there could also be

744
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:52,080
crypto-terrestrials beings that are

745
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:53,840
actually here and have been here all

746
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,200
along but have the capacity to tune

747
00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,039
themselves up and down in such a way

748
00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:01,360
that we don't usually perceive them and

749
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:02,960
then of course there's bringing in the

750
00:29:07,350 --> 00:29:05,039
celestial possibility of these beings

751
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:07,360
that might exist extra dimensionally

752
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:09,039
outside the space-time construct

753
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,080
altogether the challenge is there some

754
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,480
people who opt for reductionistic

755
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,240
materialism and believe that everything

756
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:18,880
that exists must be material and must be

757
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,000
measurable and must be visible basically

758
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:23,919
will have a hard time with this idea of

759
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:25,760
spiritual beings

760
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:27,840
and they will think this harkens back to

761
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:29,919
the church's notion from the middle ages

762
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:32,159
and that won't be popular with them

763
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:33,840
on the other hand you will have

764
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:36,559
religious adherents who will consider

765
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:40,080
these all to be angels and demons and as

766
00:29:44,230 --> 00:29:41,840
i've discussed many times

767
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,240
often religious leaders will describe

768
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:46,720
these most likely as demons that even if

769
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,480
they're doing good things

770
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:50,880
apparently they will believe these to be

771
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:53,279
deceptive entities ultimately because of

772
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:55,279
their interpretation of scripture and

773
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,000
such and their overarching suspicion of

774
00:30:02,710 --> 00:30:00,960
anything that looks new and different

775
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:02,720
so some people in our civilization i'm

776
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,559
saying will reject the notion of

777
00:30:09,430 --> 00:30:07,039
spiritual beings others will embrace it

778
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,440
but assume it must fit within a

779
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,600
fundamentalist christian perspective or

780
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:13,039
in other parts of the world perhaps a

781
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:15,600
fundamentalist islamic perspective on

782
00:30:20,389 --> 00:30:18,240
what these beings can be so they want to

783
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,399
fit it into a creation narrative

784
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,159
that is part of their religious

785
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:23,600
tradition

786
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,840
now i think it's key to focus on this

787
00:30:29,350 --> 00:30:27,120
for a moment because i see this

788
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:29,360
happening a lot something that actually

789
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,440
troubles me i find frustrating that this

790
00:30:35,029 --> 00:30:33,200
happens so often

791
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:35,039
it's one thing to look at religious

792
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,600
history and acknowledge that entities

793
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:39,679
were being encountered i think that's

794
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:41,120
very legitimate i think that's

795
00:30:46,149 --> 00:30:43,919
historical i think it really did happen

796
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:46,159
however where we make a mistake i think

797
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:47,360
is when we assume that the

798
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:49,840
interpretation of those beings their

799
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,159
nature is something we also have to

800
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,480
adopt because it's found in some sort of

801
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,240
scriptural tradition

802
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:58,240
we have to remember that just like us

803
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:00,480
those were human beings encountering the

804
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:02,559
anomalous apparent non-human

805
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:05,600
intelligences and then trying to form a

806
00:31:11,830 --> 00:31:08,559
reality construct around it a sense of

807
00:31:14,149 --> 00:31:11,840
meaning a sense of ontology around it i

808
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:14,159
think our best option our best hope at

809
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:16,880
getting at the root of this is to

810
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:19,519
separate the data the experience the

811
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:21,679
elements of the experiences from the

812
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:24,159
interpretation of them only by doing

813
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:26,799
that both in terms of religious history

814
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,519
as well as contemporary ufo phenomenon

815
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:32,399
history can i think we get closer to a

816
00:31:35,669 --> 00:31:34,480
better understanding of what might be

817
00:31:37,430 --> 00:31:35,679
going on

818
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:37,440
in other words i think we have to try to

819
00:31:42,549 --> 00:31:40,559
get down to the data that references the

820
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,559
elements themselves the experiences

821
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,039
themselves not the interpretation of the

822
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:47,760
experiences only by getting to that

823
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:50,080
clean data do i think we can then go

824
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,720
about generating new hypotheses that

825
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,200
take into consideration all the elements

826
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,440
we've discussed today

827
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:59,360
now if we think back to the secret

828
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:00,880
commonwealth book that i mentioned

829
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:04,240
earlier in that case he was actually

830
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,039
picturing beings that exist between the

831
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:09,679
angels and the humans in other words

832
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,000
beings that are not necessarily extra

833
00:32:17,430 --> 00:32:15,120
dimensional or human but something that

834
00:32:19,669 --> 00:32:17,440
can exist right alongside us that have

835
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,679
something of both a kind of liminal

836
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:22,000
being that is able to effectively

837
00:32:25,750 --> 00:32:24,159
traverse those two different kinds of

838
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:25,760
domains

839
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,320
so as we know there are multiple

840
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,480
hypotheses put forward to try to make

841
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,399
sense of this data

842
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:34,640
for ufologists they sometimes assume

843
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,600
that fairies are simply gray aliens and

844
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:39,440
for people who study fairy lore they

845
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:41,760
sometimes assume grey aliens must be

846
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,399
fairies in other words the reaction the

847
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:46,480
response the conclusion

848
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,480
is to reduce one to the other to

849
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,480
collapse these categories into a

850
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,559
singular one and usually the one that's

851
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:54,320
most favored by that particular

852
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,600
researcher

853
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:57,679
i don't think that's helpful

854
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,840
we can see the same tendency when

855
00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:01,360
religious adherents people with a

856
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,840
religious worldview look at this data

857
00:33:08,230 --> 00:33:05,600
and assume not only that these are

858
00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:08,240
spiritual beings all of them

859
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,159
in other words what we would call extra

860
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,399
dimensionals according to today's

861
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,159
discussion but that they are the

862
00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:16,559
spiritual beings from a particular

863
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:17,679
religious

864
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:20,880
dogma set and reality construct

865
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:22,559
from my point of view that's putting the

866
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:24,240
cart before the horse and that's the

867
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:26,640
case for each of those examples i just

868
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:29,039
cited where we see this tendency to

869
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,360
collapse categories or to reduce one

870
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:33,039
form to another

871
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:34,799
from my point of view that's lazy

872
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,880
thinking the data doesn't suggest we

873
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,480
should do that necessarily

874
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:40,880
and it's a sign that we are letting our

875
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:44,799
own prejudices pollute the data

876
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:47,519
and on that note we've come to the close

877
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,200
of another edition of the point of

878
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:51,600
convergence podcast if you'd like to

879
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,840
support this podcast you can do so by

880
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,399
going to patreon.com

881
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:58,640
exo academian

882
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,799
but until next time friends from deep

883
00:34:05,909 --> 00:34:02,640
within the blue ridge mountains of north

884
00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:05,919
carolina this is exo academian signing